Laigle’s Forum

Missing from the jubilant “world opinion” over the brutal murder and torture of the moderate Libyan leader is an analysis of Libyan street opinion. I think I know why no one is talking to them.

 

Don Hank

It was supposed to be all about the Libyan people. Remember? Yet missing in all the news on the subject of Libya are

1–the reaction of the LIBYAN PEOPLE to the rising specter of Sharia law. (Wasn’t it they whom we so bravely bombed residential areas to “save”?). They have had 40 years of a moderate Western-style judiciary. But they were lured by Western propaganda to seek “democracy” by overthrowing their moderate leader. The narrative was that they would be free, with a strong suggestion that Western style democracy was on the way. Now some are certainly already seeing that their new unelected Sharia law-advocating “leader,” the favorite of the Western Colonial Empire, is far from the freedom they expected.

2–an analysis (poll) of Libyan street opinion on the murder of Ghadaffi. All of a sudden, journalists supportive of “democracy” are oblivious to public opinion. But we’re used to that now, what with bailouts being decided far above our heads and reporters giving our objections short shrift. It’s only our money, after all.

The incontrovertible fact is that enough people in various cities supported Ghadaffi with their lives to prolong the war beyond expectations. Yet the press wants you to believe hatred for Ghadaffi and support for the new radical Islamist government are virtually universal.

Reported are only reactions of world leaders and the new government, i.e., influential elites who have no interest in how the people are treated but everything to gain financially and politically by playing along with the Western Ruling Class – aloof imperial strong men who hypocritically and absurdly supported the illegal torture and murder of prisoner of war Ghadaffi on “humane” grounds — but pretended to care about human rights long enough to take out this moderate leader and replace him with a radical who staunchly defends the lopping off of body parts and stoning as punishment for crimes and even sexual indiscretions. Welcome to democracy, Libya!

Virtually every Western “leader” supported the brutal torture and murder with gleeful words, even laughter or complicit silence.

It is reminiscent of how the US unilaterally instigated a coup in Iran to oust the “tyrannical” Shah only to see him replaced by a tyrant 10 times more heinous and cruel. Or for that matter, how they instigated a coup in Egypt to topple the “tyrant” Mubarek, who in fact was the most Western-friendly stabilizing factor in the region, only to replace him with an unelected military government that raided a Coptic Christian monastery the day they assumed power, wasting no time in stripping off their masks.

How deceitful our elites. How utterly gullible their subjects!

Will we ever learn?

Actually, we always do. After it is too late, like right now!

Read: http://www.medialens.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=section&layout=blog&id=1&Itemid=8

Western hypocrisy exposed

 

Don Hank

I have been debating with a friend over the issue of why Ghadaffi has been treated worse than other leaders of the same region. After all, what Muslim leader has not shown unusual cruelty in the course of his reign?

One thing that my friend brought up was that Ghadaffi had instituted Sharia law.

The problem is that, while Ghadaffi did in fact make a stab at using Sharia as a reference, or sort of Constitution, he soon found that it didn’t work in the real world, and he very shortly abandoned it (see link below).

On the other hand, Obama bowed obsequiously before King Abdullah during a visit not long ago but yet Saudi Arabia has one of the most inhumane treatments of prisoners of any country in the world – thanks to its reliance on Sharia law. So here you have Ghaddafi, who abolished cruel Sharia, vs. Abdullah, whose regime relies on Sharia, and whom do the Western elites (incl notably, Obama) call cruel?

Why, Ghadaffi, of course. (Not saying he wasn’t, but why single him out if other Middle East regimes are arguably more cruel?).

Then my friend, who avidly reads the MSM, said he had read that Ghadaffi had brought poverty to his nation. So I did some internet searches on Libyan poverty and found that the only articles claiming Libyans were poor had been written during the run-up to the Libyan rebellion, by reporters in countries whose leading politicians supported the ouster of Ghadaffi. Does anyone doubt that much of what the MSM reports, and the way they report it, is largely propaganda supportive of government policy, particularly that of increasingly authoritarian governments in Europe and the US?

On the other hand, I discovered that, in 2009, the year with the most complete reporting for all countries in the region, the average per capita income in Libya was several times that in neighboring countries, namely, $9,957 (up to $13,800 this year).

Here are some reference figures for average incomes in other countries that same year:

Afghanistan: $4,526

Iraq: $2,565

Kosovo: $3,080

Morocco: $2,808

Egypt: $2,699

Tunisia: $4,199

 

Now, you will note that Iraqis, who had been under US control since 2003, or about 5 years at the time of that compilation, had an average annual per capita income of only a third that of Libya, while Afghanis, who have been under Western Coalition control since 2001, or about 7 years at that time, earned less than half the income of Libyans. Kosovo, which was also created by the Western powers through war, had some of the lowest income in all of Europe, about one-third of what Libyans earned.

So it doesn’t look as though poverty is a viable argument against Ghadaffi, even though it was a favorite in the MSM in the run-up to his murder. After all, if impoverishment of one’s people is grounds for murdering a leader, then what should we do with the leaders (notably Western ones) responsible for countries poorer than Libya?

But when I articulated these arguments, my friend then said he thought it was more of an issue of wealth distribution, with Ghadaffi receiving vastly more than his share. However, the UN’s calculation of the Gini index, which is the best indicator of wealth distribution, was not collected for the countries that I wanted to study for my analysis, namely, Libya, Iran and Saudi Arabia.

So if there are no official data available, then apparently Western anti-Ghadaffi arguments were based solely on speculation and anecdotal evidence.  Yet, if you want to trade Libya anecdotes for Saudi Arabia anecdotes, for example, on the subject of wealth distribution you can swap stories ‘til you drop. Here’s a tofer for you, evidence of both human rights violations and poverty: A blogger was arrested this year in Saudi Arabia for posting evidence of poverty in that country. Not just a tad bit authoritarian? And not evidence that enough poverty exists that the government is scared word might get out.

You know what all this reminds me of?

A movie I once saw about a corrupt sheriff’s department in the south that stopped a car driven by a black northerner and tried to charge him but couldn’t think of a charge. They couldn’t get him for speeding because he wasn’t speeding. They couldn’t get him for drunk driving either because he was significantly more sober than a judge.

One of the deputies finally found a tail light out and they fined him on that flimsy charge.

That is the story of Libya’s Ghadaffi: a failed tail light and now he’s toast.

So what was the real motive behind the persecution and murder of Libya’s strong man, who had brought prosperity to his country and was apparently well enough liked that many of his countrymen laid down their lives for him?

The hypothesis that holds up best to scrutiny is that the Western power elite despises Western culture, especially the Judeo-Christian aspect, and here was an opportunity to rid the Middle East of another secular leader who tolerated Christians and Jews (he imported blacks from southern Africa as laborers and he cooperated with the West in its policies regarding Israel). After all, why else would the Ruling Class import millions and millions of Muslims to Europe knowing that they would not assimilate, that they would cause trouble, and that they oppose Christianity and its trappings? And why did every conflict with Western involvement – Iran, Kosovo, Iraq, Afghanistan, Ivory Coast, Egypt, etc. — ultimately wind up with almost all of the native Christians banished from their homeland of generally about 2000 years?

I have shown copious evidence of this anti-Judeo-Christian motive in numerous articles, and with each move that the West makes in the Middle East I become more and more convinced of it:

http://laiglesforum.com/i-told-you-so-again/2697.htm

http://laiglesforum.com/my-government-is-killing-me/2159.htm

http://laiglesforum.com/spare-me-the-crocodile-tears-when-northern-africa-explodes/2215.htm

http://laiglesforum.com/how-western-powers-abet-christian-persecution/2513.htm

http://laiglesforum.com/us-media-cover-up-ivory-coast-massacre-details/2398.htm

http://laiglesforum.com/why-i-am-not-on-our-side-any-more/2174.htm

http://laiglesforum.com/the-far-left-connection-to-the-near-east-rebellion/2224.htm

http://laiglesforum.com/2286/2286.htm

 

Check out these links showing the West’s extreme hypocrisy in the Ghadaffi saga:

http://www.thenational.ae/news/worldwide/africa/poverty-persists-in-libya-despite-oil-riches

Libyan average annual gross domestic product per capita has reached US$13,800 (Dh50,868) per year

(written after OBL killed, so very recent).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28nominal%29_per_capita

2009, Libya

 

http://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&met_y=ny_gdp_pcap_cd&idim=country:IRQ&dl=en&hl=en&q=gdp+per+capita+iraq

Iraq: $2090 in 2009

 

http://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&met_y=ny_gdp_pcap_cd&idim=country:AFG&dl=en&hl=en&q=gdp+per+capita+afghanistan

Afghanistan: $468 in 2009

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28nominal%29_per_capita

All 2009:

Average annual GDP per capita in Libya: $9,957

Afghanistan: $4,526

Iraq: $2,565

Kosovo: $3,080

Morocco: $2,808

Egypt: $2,699

Tunisia: $4,199

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality

Wealth distribution:

Gini index: NO DATA for Libya, Iraq, Saudi Arabia

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/17/business/worldbusiness/17iht-inflation.1.15359629.html?pagewanted=all

A January wage increase of 5 percent for government employees disappointed those Saudis who earn less than 10,000 riyals, or $2,666, a month, especially after other Gulf countries moved more quickly to raise wages by larger amounts.

 

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/19/saudi-video-blogger-reportedly-detained-for-showing-poverty-in-riyadh/?scp=2&sq=saudi&st=Search

Saudi Video Blogger Reportedly Detained for Showing Poverty in Riyadh

A popular Saudi video blogger was detained this week, along with his crew, after his report on poverty in the kingdom’s capital, Riyadh, was viewed hundreds of thousands of times on YouTube, human rights activists said.

The blogger, Feras Bugnah, was arrested on Sunday with his colleagues Hosam al-Deraiwish and Khaled al-Rasheed, in connection with the latest episode of their online show, “We Are Being Cheated,” according to the Saudi Civil and Political Rights Association.

 

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/05/26/more-saudi-women-record-driving-videos/?scp=28&sq=saudi&st=Search

Saudi women may not drive

 

http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/saudi-arabia-executes-eight-bangladeshi-nationals-2011-10-07

Beheadings

The beheadings bring the number of executions in Saudi Arabia this year to at least 58, more than double than the 2010 figures. Twenty of those executed in 2011 were foreign nationals.

http://www.hrdc.net/sahrdc/hrfeatures/HRF133.htm

2005

And only those with a perverse sense of what constitutes justice would have approved of the news of an Indian man in Saudi Arabia facing the ‘punishment’ of having his eye gouged out.

http://lankapolity.blogspot.com/2011/06/inhuman-treatment-for-sri-lankan.html

6/07/2011

A Sri Lankan who was found guilty for selling liquor in a public place in Taif city Saudi Arabia while being drunk has been subjected to 430 lashes

Obama’s Libya:

I don’t mind one bit saying “I told you so” to all those — particularly journalists – who ignored my objective, fact-supported arguments against Western military and foreign policy in the Middle East and wound up with egg on their face as a result. (I have been trying to revive the nearly-lost scientific method and apply it to journalism, which has become nothing but a series of propaganda mills. So far, there seem to be no takers).

Obama and NATO must bear the responsibility for the fall of Kaddafi, and I have warned that this fall of a stable secular Middle Eastern leader will come back to bite the West hard in the butt.

Now Fox News and others are finally cautiously discussing the fact that the rebels are an unknown quantity and may not be as benign as they were portrayed back when they seemed to have much less chance of winning. Last night it was pointed out by Sean Hannity and Oliver North that they are a mix of tribal representatives and terrorists and their new proposed constitution already calls for sharia law, in stark contrast to Kadaffi’s secular constitution (miss him yet?).

Most telling was the remark: “Obama owns Libya.”

In case you have forgotten our direct military involvement in Libya, in addition to Obama’s repeated calls for Kadaffi (sp Gadhaffi in the linked article) to step down, here is the report on the joint French-American Operation Odyssey Dawn the day after it happened:

http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/news/x617854948/France-U-S-bomb-Libyan-positions

 Back in March, I found no mainstream commentators on the left or right criticizing the West’s role in this operation or in Egypt. In fact, there has been a steady stream of “conservative” criticism against Obama for not going after Kadaffi more resolutely. (The clueless candidates — most recently Bachmann — mostly followed their clueless lead, bleating similar statements). Generally, there is a dearth of substantive criticism of any Western military involvement by left or right, no doubt for political or career reasons (many fear appearing unpatriotic, even though honest and objective commentary would ultimately save Western lives and Western embarrassment), but also due to a serious shortage of brain power. Now that a Marxist is in the White House, mainstream conservatives are finally criticizing our involvement in a Middle East conflict, but mainly because they can pin the fallout on the Left. But none of them mentioned that the regimes in post-Carter Iran, post-Clinton Kosovo, post-Bush Iraq, post-rebellion Egypt and the Ivory Coast, once ruled by secularists, are now in the hands of democratically elected Islamist leaders or mobs who openly persecute and murder Christians wholesale  (see, for example, the 4th link below on the Ivory Coast massacre of Christians presided over by the UN) and do not believe in Israel’s right to exist. (A nation that allows Muslims to live within its boundaries, whereas Muslim nations typically forbid Israelis — or often any Jews — even to visit. How fair and democratic is that?).

By contrast, I (who have nothing to lose, am not being paid for this and answer to no one) was warning repeatedly about the error in our involvement in the Middle East, not just by Democrat presidents, notably Obama, but also by Republicans (BTW, Reagan, who pulled us out of Lebanon, was an exception), and pointing out then-unheeded facts to state my case, reminding, for example, that the local Christian populations were always the ones who paid the biggest price when a stable secular leader was replaced by a mob, which eventually, inevitably, turned into an Islamic-led government with significantly less freedom for the people than under the “cruel dictators” we replaced – as well as vastly less diversity, which, oddly, Western powers prize in their countries. Israel, of course, came closer to the brink of war with each successive “win” and Iran was given a permanent pass by the West, as though these merciless enforcers of brutal Sharia law, who execute countless people for sexual misdeeds and inappropriate clothing, were lily-white defenders of human rights (as we speak, there are 2 Americans jailed in Iran for “spying,” on flimsy evidence). I sent links to each of my articles on this subject to thousands of potential readers, including major news outlets, inclucing to all Fox News personalities. News people typically do not respond, but judging by last night’s commentary by Sean, perhaps they had read some of what I said here:

http://laiglesforum.com/my-government-is-killing-me/2159.htm

here

http://laiglesforum.com/spare-me-the-crocodile-tears-when-northern-africa-explodes/2215.htm

here

http://laiglesforum.com/how-western-powers-abet-christian-persecution/2513.htm

here

http://laiglesforum.com/us-media-cover-up-ivory-coast-massacre-details/2398.htm

here

http://laiglesforum.com/why-i-am-not-on-our-side-any-more/2174.htm

here

http://laiglesforum.com/the-far-left-connection-to-the-near-east-rebellion/2224.htm

and here

http://laiglesforum.com/2286/2286.htm

 

Olavo de Carvalho also warned you here:

http://laiglesforum.com/strengthening-the-enemies/2126.htm

Look, I don’t mind people calling me crazy. But you journalists who lead the Western world by providing information to decision makers, should know by now that, in the long run, ignoring warnings about the West’s disastrous involvement in the Middle East is going to hurt you a whole lot more than it does the warning party.

Don Hank

 

Blatantly anti-Christian Western foreign policy: support of anti-Christian dictators, war against Christian supporters 

by Don Hank

Recently, it was reported that Chinese Catholics will defy their government’s ban  on observing the International Day of Prayer.

But how can there be a government ban on this, since prayer is speech, which is, to quote Barack Obama, a “universal right.” Obama said that in a speech warning Egyptian president Hosni Mubarak not to step on the human rights of Egyptian protesters, who were destroying government property and burning cars in the streets.

So what did our courageous White House resident have to say about the blatant human rights violations in China?

Nothing. Neither did any other Western “leader.”

In fact, no president has complained about any human rights violations in China, where Christianity is strictly regulated, and in North Korea, where North Korea, where Christians are reportedly jailed, beaten, executed and, in one case, pulverized with steam rollers, and where Kim Jong Il reportedly starved 2 million people to death.

The official Western response to inhumane dictators is always the same:

1–ignore any human rights violations against Christians anywhere

2–support groups hostile to Christians

As I showed in a previous article, in every conflict involving Muslims, the West’s intervention  has led to the persecution of Christians, and for the most part, has eliminated the indigenous Christian population.  Every single one of our interventions has had this same kind of outcome.

Saddam, though a tyrant,  protected Christians during his reign. Once he was toppled, the persecution of Christians was immediate. The US government under Bush/Obama did nothing and did not protest. The Assyrian Christians there were quietly deported to Sweden, which granted them asylum. Think about it: a country under American control persecuting its Christians with the tacit permission of the Americans (who now go to war to protect “human rights”).

Mubarak held the line as best he could against anti-Christian actions. He didn’t do a great job of it, mind you, but tried his best in view of the anti-Christian atmosphere among the populace. But the day he was forced out of office — under pressure from Obama — the Egyptian military fired on monks and workers at a Coptic monastery.

The Ivory Coast had a Christian president, Laurent Gbagbo, who claimed election fraud in his re-election bid. Indeed, there was strong evidence that there was fraud and that the Muslim candidate who claimed victory had in fact lost on number of votes (as I reported before, I read this in a French paper that had the chutzpah to report it, showing photos of altered ballots). The UN kicked out the Christian and declared the Muslim president without investigating the claims of fraud. In one area under UN control, 1000 Christians were murdered. There was no meaningful protest from any Western powers, which months prior to this had investigated reports of human rights violations by the Christian president.

Next in line is Syria. Obama has drawn a bead on President Basher Assad. Now, you may be wondering about Syria’s record on Christianity. A few years back a Syrian pastor visited our church and told us that, amazingly, Syria, at least at that time, was so Christian-friendly that the government there actually donated construction materials for the building of Christian churches. I believe this was true. The leadership has not changes since then, so we are talking about another Christian-friendly country that may soon fall into the hands of violent, brutal Islamists. No wonder the Christian-hostile Western powers are eager to see Syria fall. God protect the Christians there should that happen!

Anyone who wishes to learn the details of brutal Chinese and N. Korean persecution of Christians can go to sites like Voice of Martyrs and read gut-wrenching horror stories of abuse. Yet what do we do about China? Why we practice “free” trade with them of such magnitude that we destroy Western industry and make them the second richest nation on earth, and Obama fetes Hu Jintao in the White House, even as Chinese dissidents, including Nobel prize winner Liu Xiaobao sit in Chinese prisons for speaking their minds. Apparently, freedom of speech is only a “universal right” in Muslim countries where dissidents seek to topple Christian-friendly governments. Go ahead, tell me I am exaggerating.

Question for the reader:

Does anyone here think the West, which wages war at the drop of a hat over “human rights,” will ever do anything to protect Christians outside the West and do you expect these same Western powers never to persecute Western Christians once they think the coast is clear? 

It is constantly suggested in the media that the purpose of “separation of church and state” is to protect non-Christians from human rights violations by theocratically minded Christians.

But here is what most of us have been lulled into forgetting:

It is one thing — and quite a bad thing — for the government to favor the majority religion over another or set up a theocracy. But it is quite another for a government to promote, through its foreign policies, groups that persecute people of any religion because of their religion.

It is time the West woke up to see what is really going on under our very noses.

It is time we the people took back the West.

In a very real way, we are under a hostile foreign occupation, by a Right-Left coalition of Democrats and GOP in America and by the UN, NATO and the EU in Europe, whose actions consistently run counter to the will of the people. We the people have a sovereign right to our own culture and do not have to be manipulated into abandoning it in favor of a foreign one.

Of course, we also have the right to continue committing national suicide if that is what we really want.

It is up to us.

Does the West have the will to survive?

Since the writing of this article, our friend in Christ Berit Kjos added a link to it at her site. She added some information in a yellow box at the top. Please check it out:

http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/011/hank/anti-christian.htm

Further reading:

World Day of Prayer banned in China:

http://blog.beliefnet.com/pray_for_the_persecuted_church/2011/05/chinese-catholics-decide-to-defy-day-of-prayer-ban.html?source=NEWSLETTER&nlsource=11&ppc=&utm_campaign=Bible&utm_source=NL&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_term=verizon.net

Obama to Mubarak (Jan.): “Free speech is a human right.”

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/463135-President_Obama_To_Mubarak_Free_Speech_Is_Human_Right.php

Executed in N Korea for not renouncing faith in Christ:

http://www.frontline.org.za/articles/FirsthandTestimoniesOfChristianCourageAmid.htm

Kim Jong Il starved 2 million to death:

http://persecution.net/northkorea.htm

N. Korea inters, beats to death Christians

http://www.persecution.org/2011/03/16/campaign-to-end-persecution-of-christians-in-north-korea/

Christians pulverized with steam rollers in North Korea:

http://northkoreanchristians.com/

1,000 Christians murdered in Ivory Coast under UN watch:

http://laiglesforum.com/us-media-cover-up-ivory-coast-massacre-details/2398.htm

Western hypocrisy in Muslim conflicts

http://laiglesforum.com/why-i-am-not-on-our-side-any-more/2174.htm

Scandinavia has finally had enough

by Don Hank

Scandinavia, having been forced — along with other countries with strong economies — by their EU Rulers to pay  bailouts to irresponsible banks and governments, and having witnessed first-hand the damage done by hordes of hostile Muslim immigrants, has been turning steadily rightward, as shown by a landmark election in 2006.

The Swedish welfare state has been collapsing due in large part to the importation of overwhelming numbers of Muslims who indulge in crimes like rape, and theft that native Swedes have long eschewed.

In one interview, Muslim criminals claimed they enjoyed robbing Swedes because they are wimps who never resist and because they don’t like the way Swedes look at them. Like their counterparts throughout Europe, the Swedes are definitely wimps, no doubts about it.

A Swedish sociology prof says the solution is “jobs for everyone.” In other words, keep importing Muslims who hate you, keep them on the social assistance (welfare) rolls, but for goodness sakes, give the poor things your job. That will solve everything by putting you the Swedes on welfare and letting them pay your way for a change.

If someone broke into his home and raped his wife, I wonder if this sweet professor would offer the rapist-thief a job.

In response, political parties labeled as “ultraright” by the ultraleft (the average university “educated” European professional these days) are surging in Scandinavia.

Just this week, the nationalist, anti-EU True Finns party won dramatic electoral gains, showing that an increasing number of Finns have had enough of bailouts and hostile immigrants rammed down their throats by the tyrannical Brussels bureaucrats-in-chief.

Unfortunately, in the US, the people and their politicians are prioritizing anything but illegal immigration and that spells trouble ahead.

According to Judicial Watch, the Obama administration’s answer to illegal immigration and drug trafficking by Mexicans in the US is to make it impossible for the Border Patrol to interfere with their “business”!

It is tragic that so few seem to care.

But like Europe, we may have to learn this lesson the hard way.

This week’s Finnish right turn:

http://www.hs.fi/english/article/EDITORIAL+Timo+Soini+rewrote+the+electoral+history+books/1135265522647

Swedish crisis:

http://newmediajournal.us/indx.php/item/1220

US “solution” to drug smuggling:

http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2011/apr/border-patrol-banned-top-smuggler-routes

Sweden’s right turn:

http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/sep2006/gb20060918_063866.htm