Does Trump only pick on women?

April 22nd, 2009 LAIGLESFORUM Posted in Culture, Culture Wars, Gay agenda, Homosexual Agenda 6 Comments »

Most of you probably know that a judge in Donald Trump’s Miss USA pageant called one of the most promising contestants a foul word and drew a pornographic picture of her just because she does not share his warped leftist views about marriage.

But how many of you have associated that with the bully Trump on his TV show where he fires trembling helpless ladies with such apparent pleasure?

I wrote the following letter to Donald Trump. I asked him if he has the courage to fire a male.

If you also have misgivings about the way this yound lady was treated, won’t you take the time to write to Donald Trump? He does not accept emails, but this time, I figure writing a snail mail is worth the effort.

April 22, 2009

Mr. Donald Trump / 725 5th Ave. / New York, NY 10022

Dear Mr. Trump,

By now you will have heard from a number of Americans who are wondering how the Miss USA pageant could have possibly degenerated to the extent it has just recently, with your judge Perez Hilton calling one of the most popular and promising beauty queens a foul name and drawing a pornographic picture of her, all because she - like you, I am sure - believes in traditional marriage.

We know that you pride yourself in showing class. Yet it seems you have hired a man with so little class it seems hardly appropriate to say “no class,” or even “low class” when describing him. His kind of behavior is so putrid and repugnant it is off the charts. The behavior of animals in the barnyard is a cut better.

Please tell me you didn’t know he was this kind of slime before you allowed him to be a judge in this event. If I thought you did, I wouldn’t bother wasting my time writing you.

On the campaign trail, Barack Obama has said he too believes marriage is between a man and a woman. I wonder if Hilton has an equally low opinion of Mr. Obama. Or does he only pick on helpless women?

My readers and I would be really interested in what you think and would appreciate more than just a boiler plate response. Do you think people who believe in traditional marriage need to take a back seat on the bus? Are atheism and leftist ideals a requisite to being a Miss USA these days?

Americans have seen you many times on TV looking a scared little girl in the eye and shattering her dreams by thundering the words “you’re fired.” Bravo! I’m sure that took tremendous courage for a powerful billionaire like yourself. I now challenge you to show equal courage in dealing with a low-life, foul-mouthed, slithering slimeball male who gets his thrills by attacking helpless females simply for standing up for decency.

Mr. Trump, all eyes are on you now. Screw up your courage again and say what you need to say: Perez Hilton, you’re fired!

Or do you only pick on ladies?

Sincerely,

Don Hank

Editor-in-Chief

Laigle’s Forum

http://laiglesforum.com

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Stop supporting evil in high places

March 29th, 2009 LAIGLESFORUM Posted in Christian, Culture Wars, Gay agenda, Judiciary, Socialism No Comments »

Stop supporting evil in high places

 

The following is an article published in the American Spectator in 2005, but the ideas it contains have largely been ignored since then, as “Christian” groups continue to use the language of the Left to support unconstitutional Supreme Court decisions and to confer respect to lazy, ignorant, ambitious and/or evil politicians who do not deserve your respect. We should have learned our lesson since Roe v Wade but have learned nothing, instead following the lead of the ungodly in churches and Christian organizations that claim to be helping but side with the enemy.

John Haskins, whose web site The Underground Journal, I highly recommend, is a warrior who has never been known to compromise with the Left. He and colleague Gregg Jackson pointed out some time ago that same-sex marriage has never in fact been legal anywhere because the Supreme Court judges of states whose courts supported it do not have the support of the Constitution in so doing and therefore do not deserve your respect and the legitimization you confer to their decisions. These officials are nothing but usurpers, their deeds are unlawful and as long as you honor them with your respect, you are an accessory to their crime. Haskins believes that “pro-family” and “Christian” groups make matters much worse when they plead cases from the standpoint that these leftist judges are legitimate and their decisions are legally binding. The mantra is “we must avoid a constitutional crisis at all costs,” but the crisis is already here and was caused by the judges themselves. So what this translates to is: “we must avoid resolving the constitutional crisis.” A constitutional challenge is precisely what these lawless judges need to keep them in check, but everyone just follows the lead of the pseudo-conservatives and “moderates.” The result so far is a Marxist “president” who cannot prove he meets the qualifications to be president - thanks to a spineless Supreme Court that will not honor any challenges, no matter how reasonable and well-founded they are, and thanks to a populace that has been indoctrinated by schools, universities and media into accepting the unacceptable.

I have always argued that public officials have no right under the Constitution generally to change natural language and specifically to tamper with the definition of the word “marriage” as it has existed for millennia in all world cultures - not just Christian ones. In natural languages as they have evolved everywhere, independently of each other over the years, the equivalents for the English word “marriage” have always referred to a union between a man and a woman. Although in some Muslim countries and in the Mormon community, there has been a provision for men marrying more than one woman, in no traditional community has there ever been a provision for marriage between same-sex partners, which has universally been regarded as an absurd notion. It still is absurd and always will be, but the International Left has decided to carve out a new “victim” group, ie, homosexuals, and has invented the notion of “gay marriage” to prop up this group in return for their loyalty. Why the expenditure of so much effort for such a tiny group?

There are several reasons, including the fact that traditional man-woman marriage is an obstacle to the Left’s agenda of controlling children’s minds from cradle to adulthood and beyond, but the main reason is to undermine Christianity, which has traditionally stood in the way of the Left. The ultimate goal is to charge anyone who opposes same-sex unions with a “hate” crime. This effectively criminalizes certain parts of the Bible, opening to door to further-reaching “hate” crimes, for example, banning the mention of hell by preachers.

 It wasn’t until Evangelical groups began promoting the diabolical idea of partnering with government that the Left was able to overcome the religous obstacles to their goals, as witnessed by the fact that close to 30% of young evangelicals voted for Obama last election. In addition, 54% of Catholics also voted for Obama. Without the “Christian” vote, the current rapid erosion of the free market and nationalization of banks and business (both communist policies) would not have happened. The Obama debacle has taken on new significance since the latest WND report that Obama is now filling White House posts with Muslims, some of whom are terrorist sympathizers and supporters.

What can you do? Roundly reject the language of the Left: For instance, don’t ever say or write the words “gay marriage,” “choice” when referring to the murder of the unborn, or “strike down” when referring to laws opposed by the Supreme Courts of states or the US Supreme Court. And do not allow your friends or family to use the newspeak of the Left. These soulless people can usurp power only if we lend them credibility. We have been doing that for too long. Listen: When was the last time your pastor said homosexual marriage and homosexuality are sinful? When has he spoken of a hell to which the lost are destined?

If you can’t remember, then you are probably supporting evil in the form of offerings and tithes. Time to leave. Time to say no. Time to fight or lose everything you love and everything you have always wanted for your children.

Donald Hank

 

No More Striking Down Constitutions

Why are even conservatives afraid to call things by their name?

By John Haskins
Published 11/8/2005 12:05:11 AM

Conservatives contemplating George Bush’s judicial legacy — and his bizarre vision of Harriet Miers among the nine highest potentates in the democratic world — should expect no counter-revolution. True, he promised constitutionalist judges. But talking constitutionalism (like talking Christianity) is easy.

Our governing elite punishes unvarnished clarity about our Constitution. Intellectual honesty, for lawyers, schoolteachers, psychologists, professors and actors, is costly. Most lie low or join the enforcers. Surely even Roberts, Scalia, and Alito see the gap between them and the Founding Fathers, for whom precedent was impotent against the Constitution.

Absurd though it is, only “constitutional” conservatives honor precedent. The Liberal “mainstream” savors precedents they’ve shot down — or will next chance. Their favorite rulings violate centuries of precedent. But the obvious is hard to see, especially as monumental, abstract questions are addressed in isolation from thoughts of personal advancement. The realm of the mind and methodology that do this are not the pragmatic part that wins court cases, campaigns, and useful friendships. The former withers when neglected for the latter. Even “all star” conservative constitutionalists steer a careful course between the Constitution and what the establishment will tolerate.

Read more.

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Open season on Christians

December 19th, 2008 LAIGLESFORUM Posted in Christian, Gay agenda 1 Comment »

When is hate not hate?

Commentary by Donald Hank

Why, when the victims are not victims.

Make sense? It does to the Left in America, where, according to an analysis by Public Advocate, a church that is torched by homosexual activists is, in today’s terms, not a victim of anything because only “gays” can be the victims, so when they commit crimes, well, that is just - irrelevant, because it is apparently fine and dandy to hate Christians in the United States of America today.

In the case of the Wasilla church, arsonists attacked when they knew there were women and children inside. They didn’t care if people were killed. The only thing that mattered to them was their own lusts and a lifestyle known to be lethal.

There is a way that seemeth right unto man but the end thereof are the ways of death.

Here is what the Washington Times said in its report on the crime:

The 1,000-member evangelical church was the subject of intense scrutiny after Palin was named John McCain’s running mate. Early in Palin’s campaign, the church was criticized for promoting in a Sunday bulletin a Focus on the Family “Love Won Out Conference” in Anchorage. The conference promised to “help men and women dissatisfied with living homosexually understand that same-sex attractions can be overcome.”

According to the Illinois Family Institute, gay activists have been threatening to use arson to get their way. Their web site provides damning quotes and links to pro-”gay” forums where activists actually call for homosexuals dissatisfied with the results for Prop 8 (denying the redefinition of marriage) to torch buildings associated with persons known to oppose same-sex “marriage.”

 After the cited calls to violence appeared on pro-”gay” sites, lo and behold, Sara Palin’s church, known for its defense of traditional marriage, was torched and almost totally destroyed. Some people were inside, including several children, when the arsonists did their dirty deed. It is hard to avoid the conclusion that the arsonists actually intended to murder these innocent people.

Now you know when hate is not hate.

But do you know when enough is enough?

Scots Government set to weaken age of consent

Here it comes! The UK has already seen the legalization of “gay” marriage. Now comes the next stage — legalized pederasty. And if you look at the names of the Scotts who are behind this, I bet to dollars to donuts they are some of the same ones who supported same-sex marriage.

This goes hand in hand with the article about the Nassau PTA official who was caught with her panties down with a 13 year old boy in her car.

The “gay” agenda will pave the way for legalized pederasty. That is why we need to ask, in our debate with ”gay” activists, what is the difference between what they espouse and pederasty.

I asked a member of the Center on the First Amendment (don’t recall name exactly) that in an email exchange, and he could not answer. When I tried to pin him down, he stopped writing.

From our friends in the UK:

Scots Government set to weaken age of consent
The Scottish Government is moving head with plans to water down Scotland's age of consent law.
The plans are contained in the Sexual Offences (Scotland) Bill, currently making its way through the Scottish Parliament. Britain's age of consent laws, which prohibit sexual activity under 16, are largely the result of the campaigns of 19th Century Christian, Josephine Butler. She cared for damaged prostitutes and recognised that a robust age of consent law was needed to protect young girls from sexual exploitation.
Last month The Christian Institute presented evidence before the Justice Committee at the Scottish Parliament.
Please pray for The Christian Institute has we campaign against plans to weaken this important protection.
For more information about the Scottish Government's plans see:
http://www.christian.org.uk/issues/2008/family/aocscot/
Please forward this email to your friends.
Yours in Christ,
Colin Hart, Director, The Christian Institute
Registered office: The Christian Institute, Wilberforce House, 4 Park Road, Gosforth Business Park, Newcastle upon Tyne, NE12 8DG
The Christian Institute is a company limited by guarantee, registered in England as a charity.
Company No. 263 4440 Charity No. 100 4774 / A charity registered in Scotland Charity No. SC039220       
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Beware of this “First Amendment” group

December 2nd, 2008 LAIGLESFORUM Posted in Culture Wars, Gay agenda, Homosexual Agenda No Comments »

Not all “First Amendment” groups are for the First Amendment

By Donald Hank

Round two in my exchange with The Freedom Forum First Amendment Center group, which started with a November 28 posting relating to an article Mr. Haynes had had published in the media, is now complete (see separate column).

In Haynes’ article, addressing the actions of both gay marriage advocates and traditional marriage advocates, he had mentioned a number of grievances perpetrated by the gay marriage advocates, but had also said the following about the other side:

At the same time, Mormon church leaders not only stir up anger, but also hurt their cause when they lend their support to campaigns that use scare tactics [my emphasis] about homosexuality in elementary schools and misrepresent the religious-liberty threat to churches. Mormon leaders repeatedly call for Mormons to show “kindness and respect” toward people on the other side of the marriage debate. Good advice, but in my view, the “Yes on 8″ campaign didn’t meet that standard.

The background of these “scare tactics” is well known to Laigle’s Forum readers but let us recap some details first:

In areas where same-sex “marriage” is legal, pastors and even people denouncing homosexual activity on medical grounds (70% of AIDS cases are male homosexuals) have been jailed or fined. Fines of up to $15,000 Canadian dollars have been imposed in Canada, while in Sweden, Pastor Aka Green was jailed and charged with a “hate” crime for preaching the biblical viewpoint on homosexuality (the “offense” carried what amounted to a life sentence for the elderly pastor), and in Philadelphia, 11 Christians were arrested and charged with a similar “crime” for staging a peaceful protest at a “coming out” fest.

People who oppose “gay” “marriage” have pointed out the David Parker case. Here is a video that was part of this so-called “scare tactic.” It shows an interview with David Parker, who was jailed because he asked parental notification when pro-homosexual lessons were given in their son’s kindergarten, and was told by the school board that the school had a right to promote homosexuality to kindergartners without notifying parents because same-sex marriage is legal in Massachusetts. For protesting this policy, David Parker was put in handcuffs and jailed. Let me point something out that Mr. Haynes has failed to grasp.

Now a scare tactic is an unfair tactic that uses artificially generated fear of something that without this tactic, would not normally be feared.

So what Mr. Haynes and his group are saying is that people would not normally be afraid of being arrested for demanding parental notification of the fact that a school was about to teach their 5 year old that homosexuality - which the Bible clearly denounces -  is acceptable. Let me remind Mr. Haynes that I can go out and protest the Iraq war, and the government cannot threaten me with a fine or jail. I can protest any legislation I dislike. I can protest the tax law. I can protest against illegal immigration. I can protest against immigration law. I can protest laws against prostitution, laws for prostitution, laws protecting women or children, laws that hurt women and children, anything, anything under the sun. Except homosexual activity. If I protest that in Canada or Europe, I can be fined or jailed. Even in most American cities I will be harassed by the police and Americans have already been arrested for this. This is a true First Amendment issue.

But now, consider this: If they do jail or fine me and I then try to warn others that my constitutional rights are being denied me and that your rights can be denied in the name of “protecting homosexuals” (gosh, those church desecrators must be really helpless!), then Mr. Charles Haynes and his group, ostensibly dedicated to the First Amendment, not only will not protect me, they will in fact accuse me of using a scare tactic simply because I had the audacity to tell the plain truth!

One would expect that a group with a name like Freedom Forum First Amendment Center would be interested first and foremost in the free speech aspects of this “gay” issue. Yet, they complain that people on both sides aren’t polite enough. When have you ever heard of any homosexual being fined, jailed or charged with a crime simply for protesting in favor of homosexual “rights” or “marriage”? And when did the Freedom Forum First Amendment Center ever raise a finger in protest against such obvious violations of the First Amendment as the jailing or fining of Christians, which - need I remind them? - was written largely to protect religious speech.

Obviously, this group is interested in something quite different from the right of free expression, because they are lumping peaceful opponents of same sex “marriage” in with homosexuals who riot on the streets, break into churches, destroy property and disrupt religious services.

To refer to legitimate protests against horrific tyrannical deprivation of basic human rights as a “scare tactic” can only be a tactic in its own right to muzzle those who protest homosexual “marriage.” To this extent it is part of the Left’s agenda to undermine the value of the traditional family to the greatest possible extent.

For those who think this idea of the Left promoting homosexuality is a chimera of my imagination, let me share with you an email I received from Walter Schneider of Fathers for Life. I asked Walter if there was any literature on how homosexuality is used by the Left to promote their anti-family agenda. His response:

Yes, there is information, in The Socialist Phenomenon and elsewhere, on how homosexuality is used to push the socialist agenda.

I know that you will be interested in the information I will provide in response to your question.  For that reason I give you a fair amount of it and will provide pointers of a more general nature.

Just now I searched The Socialist Phenomenon for “homosexual” and found this:

  • Deschamps considers various manifestations of evil to be the result of social conditions; he includes even homosexuality, for example. (p. 117)
  • Marcuse speaks here of the end of culture in the old sense of the word: “It would still be a reversal of the process of civilization, a subversion of culture — but after culture had done its work and created the mankind and the world that could be free.” (119: p. 198) The essence of this upheaval Marcuse describes in poetic terms by juxtaposing Prometheus, the hero of repressive culture, with the heroes of his own New World — Orpheus and Narcissus. He ends as follows: “The classical tradition associates Orpheus with the introduction of homosexuality.

[232]


Like Narcissus, he rejects the normal Eros, not for an ascetic ideal, but for a fuller Eros. Like Narcissus he protests against the repressive order of procreative sexuality. The Orphic and Narcissistic Eros is to the end the negation of this order — the Great Refusal. In the world symbolized by the culture hero Prometheus, it is the negation of all order; but in this negation Orpheus and Narcissus reveal a new reality, with an order of its own, governed by different principles.” (119: p. 171)

The most active socialist current of recent times, the New Left, proved to be extraordinarily receptive to Marcuse’s teaching and was to a considerable extent influenced by it. Marcuse’s basic propositions are closely paralleled in the slogans of this movement and serve as their theoretical foundation. For instance, the liberation of sexual instincts finds expression in the “sexual revolution,” and the suppression of repressive reason is demonstrated in the “psychedelic revolution,” that is, in the mass use of hallucinogens. Even ostentatious slovenliness can be theoretically justified, for according to the theory, ego and superego suppress the instincts connected with the sense of smell and enforce the perception of strong smells as “disgusting.” (Furthermore, the dominant classes associate garbage with the lower classes, which are perceived negatively as “the dregs of society.”) These views also serve as a theoretical basis for “left art,” which fosters the idea of “anti-cultural” (or “cultural”) revolution, of the destruction of “repressive” or “stifling” culture, up to and including a heightened interest (in both literature and ,art) in garbage and excrement as means of “exploding bourgeois culture.”…. (pp. 232, 233)

  • The last hundred years, particularly the twentieth century, have brought socialism unheard-of success. This has been primarily a success of socialism in its Marxist form, mostly because Marxism has been able to answer two questions that always stand before socialist movements: where to seek the “chosen people” — i.e., who is to destroy the old world — and what is the supreme authority sanctioning the movement?

[299]


The answer to the first question was the proletariat; to the second, science. At present both answers have become ineffective, at least for the West. “The proletariat has become a support for the system,” Marcuse complains. “What is a proletariat if it is not revolutionary? And it is, indeed, not revolutionary,” Sartre confirms. And science has lost its prestige and its role as unquestionable authority; it has become too popular and widespread, and ceased being the secret knowledge of a select few. Moreover, many of its gifts have recently proved to be far from beneficial. For this reason, Marcuse calls for replacing science with a utopia, for granting the role held by reason to fantasy. Until these fundamental questions find answers adequate to the new epoch, it will scarcely be possible to expect success for socialism commensurate with that of Marxism. Meanwhile there have been and continue to be attempts in this direction. For example, the search for the “chosen people” seems to be the real meaning behind the “problem of minorities” which so engages the Western leftist movements: students or homosexuals or American blacks or local nationalities in France. …There is no doubt that other answers will be found — the tendency toward socialism that grips the West speaks for this. (pp. 299, 300)

Herbert Marcuse was a member of the “Frankfurt School”, a communist think tank (The Frankfurt Institute for Social Research), whose members (all Jewish) were invited in the beginning of the 1930s to come to the USA, to take teaching positions in the USA.  Some went to Columbia, where a department was created for them.  Some went to Brandeis, and some of them took controlling positions in the Senate Foreign Relations Committee (yes, McCarthy was right; there was a communist behind every bush).

Especially Herbert Marcuse and Theodor Adorno became key-influences for the launching and implementation of the cultural revolution in the 1960s and 1970s.  The Frankfurt School is very much alive now and re-established itself in Frankfurt, Germany.  (At Fathers for Life you can find more leads on the nature, role and influence of the Frankfurt School.  That will produce a large number of returns.  You can narrow down those returns by combining “Frankfurt School” with other terms.  The most convenient method for searching the site is to use the search-input field at the upper right-hand of the web pages at Fathers for Life.)

Rather than merely focusing on homosexuality, The Socialist Phenomenon mentions, more often and more prominently, various circumstances that are manifestations of the deliberate destruction and replacement of the traditional nuclear family, such as “community” families, polygamy, state-ownership of children, and so on, all of which are of course, becoming very pronounced developments in the present socialist re-engineering of humanity.

End of Walter’s message.

Friends, there are 2 main types in the homosexual “rights” movement:

1 - Actual homosexuals who desire to be affirmed by society and are prepared to reshape society to make this happen. To some extent or another, these are what Lenin called “useful idiots,” not because they are stupid but because they are unaware that they are being used for a cause that has nothing to do with their own group’s issues.

2 - Leftists who are following the agendas set forth by “social change” agitators like Marcuse, using any and all interest groups that can be portrayed as “victims.” Homosexuals, who have never been seen as victims in the past (rather, by many, as carriers of an unhealthy and dead-end lifestyle and, as seen by the religious communities, as people given over to sin), now become downtrodden underdogs, never mind the fact that many are multimillionaires and their average net incomes exceed that of the general population.

It is hard to say exactly what the Freedom Forum First Amendment Center’s agenda is. But one thing is certain: They are not focused on protecting your First Amendment rights.

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In defense of traditional marriage

December 2nd, 2008 LAIGLESFORUM Posted in Gay agenda, Homosexual Agenda 1 Comment »

I previously presented the first round in an exchange in which I defended traditional marriage against an influential proponent of “gay” marriage. It is worthwhile to consider the arguments both for and against marriage in order to become more effective in the fight for our culture. Every one of you who believes marriage is sacred and is between a man and a woman is now considered the enemy by our leftward tilting elite in media, education, academe, the psychology racket, and, increasingly, in government. But you don’t have to sit and take it. Not by any means! Their arguments may sound intellectual, but it is all a facade, and you can break it down instantly with a little training.

Here is round 2 in my discussion with Charles Haynes. My responses are in brackets:

Hi Don,
Thank you for your very full and interesting response.  I am not trying to sway you on this issue.  I recognize that deeply-held convictions are at stake here [pro-homosexual activists like to speak of "deeply-held" convictions of religious people who oppose them. Are they trying to say that their own convictions are shallowly held?]
 
But I do have a few additional comments in response to the points you made.  Your Brazilian example offers some support to the arguments made by advocates of same-sex marriage:  When interracial relationships were legally recognized as “marriage,” people did accept these marriages, “whether they liked them or not” — as you say.  Having grown up in the deep South, I can assure you that many people rejected interracial marriages as marriages (some still do) — but, of course, were forced to “accept” them for legal/civic purposes after the Supreme Court’s decision in Loving.  This is now happening with same-sex marriages in Mass. and in some countries. [But interracial marriages were still recognized as marriage, legal or not. My focus was on the definition, not the legality. That is why I use quotation marks around "marriage" when it is preceded by "same-sex"]
 
I am not an expert in the history of marriage, so I will continue to read about it (including the authors you suggest).  But I think the struggle of women (and their supporters) to change the legal definition of marriage in ways that give women basic rights is well-documented [Unfortunately, the "victimization" of women hurt them more than it helped them]. I understand the “protection” argument (from another era [Are you trying to say protection of women is outdated...?])… but I think most of us now recognize that in matters of property, inheritance, divorce etc., women were indeed exploited in that system [But marriage was between a man and a woman. That was the definition. You are getting off-topic].  This is, of course, still the case in many parts of the world.  Most women most certainly do not “rule the roost” in much of the developing world. In India, for example, the treatment of millions of married women is appalling. True, there is a tradition of women taking charge of the household in families where the husband is the bread-winner (although this usually means the mother-in-law with the wife often treated very poorly).  But for the many poor women who do the back-breaking work in the fields while husbands often do little or nothing… women who have little protection in a culture that traditionally defers to male power and dominance … it would come as a shock to be described as “ruling the roost.”  I have spent considerable time in India — and I can only hope and pray that marriage continues to be redefined [Is marriage not a union between a man and a woman in India? I think you are being creative with the word "redefine." They won't need to redefine marriage to protect women. BTW, I wonder if Indian women would consider it safe to be sent on a bombing mission in Iraq, why the work would not be back-breaking if men did it and why it is more abusive for women to do hard work than men] there in ways that finally and fully protect women.

I agree that same-sex marriage is a very significant redefinition of “marriage” (bringing to the surface relationships that have existed throughout history, mostly underground [But never referred to as "marriage" in the past.]).  For those who believe as a matter of religious conviction that this is wrong — and that the sexual activity associated with same-sex relations is “unnatural” and wrong — no amount of “acceptance” of homosexuals in society will make same-sex marriage “right.”  I understand that. [But do you understand that not all proponents of traditional marriage are religious - or at least not all Christian? Please check out this article on that subject].  But I think the consequences are more likely to be good for society, rather than the dangers you cite.  Gay relationships and families are a reality that will not go away [Is the fact that you think "gay" "families" won't go away an example of why "the consequences are more likely to be good for society"? If so, then we could also say terrorism will not go away, so we need to legalize it so that we can control it better, right?].  Legal recognition and state benefits will help provide stability and strengthen gay families [Now you are redefining "family." I do not accept this redefinition].  After so many decades of “marriage” being debased in our culture (quickie weddings and divorces, TV contests for picking a wife/husband, etc), recognition of same-sex marriage may strengthen the meaning of marriage [Please show me how "gay" marriage would remedy the problems with heterosexual marriages. BTW, "gay" men have well over 100 sexual encounters on average over their lifetime].
 
As for adoption, that’s easy [I think a more appropriate word is "facile"] for me.  I know a number of wonderful same-sex couples with beautiful, well-raised children.  I would leave my children to them in a heartbeat.  [Many people have been charged by the police with being a pedophile and people said that about them too, before they were caught. BTW, you never answered my question: If homosexual adoption is ok, what is wrong with pederasty? You can't answer that, can you?]. The larger questions about how couples have children “artificially” [do you feel uncomfortable using the word "artificial"? If so, why? If not, why the quotation marks?] applies as much or more to straight couples as to gay [As much? Even though most straight couples can have children without artificial insemination?].  I realize the ethical questions are complex and the subject of much debate [Subject of much debate only in a hopelessly corrupted society, which is what the West has become]. But the desire of people (straight and gay) to have children is strong — and these various methods are here to stay [Only if people in authority positions allow that to happen. It is clear where you stand. You now sound much different than in your article, where it almost seemed that you were neutral. You quickly have shifted into high gear for homosexual "marriage." Really, if that was your agenda in the first place, you should have told the readers that you had chosen sides --  not that it wasn't obvious for those of us who read between the lines]. So we need to continue to press for the best ethical guidelines for the use of these methods [or for discouraging people from using them. Don't forget that option].
 
I do believe abuse of children is “objectively wrong” [But Mr. Haynes, you keep redefining things, so I have no idea what you think child abuse is! I had asked you why pederasty is abuse and you couldn't answer that. And you wonder why conservatives are leery of "culture change"?]– and I think the arguments for protecting children ["protecting children" has become an excuse to remove fathers from children's lives in "family" courts throughout the West. It has already been redefined. See why I don't like redefinitions?] are deeply ingrained in our legal system.  I see no connection between legalizing gay marriage and child abuse [What do you mean by "child abuse"? I am sure your definition is no more traditional than the other definitions you are busy eroding, and that is worrisome].  On the contrary, I think increasing the number of stable, loving homes for children, including many unwanted and abused children, will help address the problems of child abuse. The fact that a small number of (disturbed) people promote such things as pederasty is a red herring [Again, why are they "disturbed"? Only a few years ago, homosexuals were recognized as disturbed, until they organized well enough to represent a powerful interest group capable of bullying psychologists. Once pederasts get that much power, how will people combat them? By your method? That is, by redefining our vocabulary? Lord forbid! Culture changers like you really scare me, and I am not saying that as a scare tactic. I am 100% serious].  There are groups of people in this country that promote all manner of evil things… [how do you define evil? Today, that is. I know that tomorrow your definition may be different].
 
When I travel to nations in Europe, most recently Spain, where same-sex marriage is legal, I find most people see this as a matter of fairness — and think it is healthy for their societies [They think climbing in the ring with a raging bull armed with nothing but a cape is healthy too, Mr. Haynes. Let's be serious here].  This is new, of course, and my observations merely anecdotal — so the jury isn’t in on how this change will ultimately affect Mass., Canada, parts of Europe etc. What does seem to be the case, however, is the legal recognition of gay relationships will continue apace in the many parts of the world (including, surprisingly, Latin America [doesn't surprise me a bit. Latin America has drifted to the far left, and the Left is anti-family, as confirmed by their own writings -- which is why they constantly redefine "family"]).  The challenge will be to strengthen marriage for all — and to ensure that the welfare of children is a high priority in public policy.  That’s where we should be focusing our attention in my view. [I would only ask what the definition du jour of "welfare of children" is. I am sure that in your mind, that is "the subject of much debate."]
 
Best, Charles 

 
Charles Haynes
The Freedom Forum First Amendment Center
555 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW
Washington, DC 20001
202/292-6293 - office

 

Just a reminder that

December 15th is
Bill of Rights Day

Let us give thanks to the Divine Author of Liberty

Dear Friends of Liberty,

There’s still time to register for the Bill of Rights Commemorative Banquet on Monday, December 15, 2008. I hope you are planning to join us.

I am including as an attachment a copy of the registration form and cover letter for the banquet. I hope you will forward it on to others, even persons in other states. We would like to hear that there were observances of some kind in every state!

For the Bill of Rights,
and the Ten Commandments,
Carris Kocher
Bill of Rights Bicentennial Committee
P.O. Box 912
Concordville, PA 19331
610-476-3482

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