Comments on: European judge redefines, bans free speech http://laiglesforum.com/2009/01/21/european-judge-redefines-bans-free-speech/ Christian Activism Mon, 06 Sep 2010 20:33:37 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: John http://laiglesforum.com/2009/01/21/european-judge-redefines-bans-free-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-20339 John Sat, 07 Feb 2009 17:55:42 +0000 http://laiglesforum.com/?p=510#comment-20339 I will believe that this is not targeted free speech based upon its content (anti-Muslim) when similar anti-Christian and anti-Jewish speech is similarly addressed. In the grand scheme of things, I do not understand how saying that you do not agree with a person's religious views, and expressing a logical result of those views is "hate speech". Non-Christians have said these things for years about Christians, and have never been called on the issue. I guess it is just that the Muslims have the power to make it unpleasant (read dangerous) to critize them. I will believe that this is not targeted free speech based upon its content (anti-Muslim) when similar anti-Christian and anti-Jewish speech is similarly addressed.

In the grand scheme of things, I do not understand how saying that you do not agree with a person’s religious views, and expressing a logical result of those views is “hate speech”. Non-Christians have said these things for years about Christians, and have never been called on the issue. I guess it is just that the Muslims have the power to make it unpleasant (read dangerous) to critize them.

]]> By: LAIGLESFORUM http://laiglesforum.com/2009/01/21/european-judge-redefines-bans-free-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-20246 LAIGLESFORUM Thu, 22 Jan 2009 15:25:16 +0000 http://laiglesforum.com/?p=510#comment-20246 Kris, I keep coming back to the fact that those who believe (as true beleivers) that Islam and Christianity are both equally culpable and perhaps even equally dangerous, are living in an ivory tower and aren't looking at the real world right outside their windows. These secularist fanatics, religious fanatics in fact, are so intent on destroying Christianity that they are willing to use 2 "mercenary" groups to get the job done: 1--"gays" and 2--Muslims These blind fanatic secularists never once stop to think that one of these 2 groups wants to annihilate the other and WILL once they get the upper hand. I leave it to you to decide who will win here. By then there will be no persons of faith to defend the West. Say goodbye to it all. And learn to say "Allah akbar." The Bible says God will send recalcitrants strong delusions in the end times. Stronger delusions I have never seen before. Don Kris,
I keep coming back to the fact that those who believe (as true beleivers) that Islam and Christianity are both equally culpable and perhaps even equally dangerous, are living in an ivory tower and aren’t looking at the real world right outside their windows.
These secularist fanatics, religious fanatics in fact, are so intent on destroying Christianity that they are willing to use 2 “mercenary” groups to get the job done:
1–”gays” and
2–Muslims
These blind fanatic secularists never once stop to think that one of these 2 groups wants to annihilate the other and WILL once they get the upper hand.
I leave it to you to decide who will win here.
By then there will be no persons of faith to defend the West. Say goodbye to it all. And learn to say “Allah akbar.”
The Bible says God will send recalcitrants strong delusions in the end times. Stronger delusions I have never seen before.
Don

]]> By: Dr. Massimo Casalegno http://laiglesforum.com/2009/01/21/european-judge-redefines-bans-free-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-20245 Dr. Massimo Casalegno Thu, 22 Jan 2009 14:54:02 +0000 http://laiglesforum.com/?p=510#comment-20245 Sirs, I have the following remarks: a) freedom of expression is clearly a democratic value. But telling blunt and stupid lies in public cannot be considered freedom of expression. Telling lies in public damages society because, unfortunately, there are always people ready to believe to such lies and make trouble as a consequence. b) As far as someone feels troubled by the restrictive behavior and the backward opinions of Muslims, so be he/she advised that all that is reproached to Muslims (i.e. roles of men and women, dress and eating code, prayers, etc.) exist equivalently in Christianity. Indeed, Catholicism, if taken to the letter, is even more stifling than Islam. Europe is further than Arab Countries NOT because it has Christian heritage rather than an Islamic one, but just because religion has been substituted by Science. c) In spite of all this, even here in Europe science is not applied in many fields of life, especially in Court, where it would be of great importance. If Islamic family law is defending only the the interests of men, then family law in all countries of Christian heritage overprotects women with the result that men, in "former-Christian" countries, have the only role to work and to pay for women and children, in many cases without even having the right to see them. Is this a sign of the "superiority" of European and/or Christian "culture"? Best regards, Dr. Massimo Casalegno Sirs,
I have the following remarks:
a) freedom of expression is clearly a democratic value. But telling blunt and stupid lies in public cannot be considered freedom of expression. Telling lies in public damages society because, unfortunately, there are always people ready to believe to such lies and make trouble as a consequence.
b) As far as someone feels troubled by the restrictive behavior and the backward opinions of Muslims, so be he/she advised that all that is reproached to Muslims (i.e. roles of men and women, dress and eating code, prayers, etc.) exist equivalently in Christianity. Indeed, Catholicism, if taken to the letter, is even more stifling than Islam.
Europe is further than Arab Countries NOT because it has Christian heritage rather than an Islamic one, but just because religion has been substituted by Science.
c) In spite of all this, even here in Europe science is not applied in many fields of life, especially in Court, where it would be of great importance. If Islamic family law is defending only the the interests of men, then family law in all countries of Christian heritage overprotects women with the result that men, in “former-Christian” countries, have the only role to work and to pay for women and children, in many cases without even having the right to see them. Is this a sign of the “superiority” of European and/or Christian “culture”?
Best regards,
Dr. Massimo Casalegno

]]> By: Walter Schneider http://laiglesforum.com/2009/01/21/european-judge-redefines-bans-free-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-20243 Walter Schneider Thu, 22 Jan 2009 08:14:59 +0000 http://laiglesforum.com/?p=510#comment-20243 Don, Allow me to add a little more information on this, so that any readers may become more informed on what the circumstances of Geert Wilders are about, and so that those circumstances may be more fully understood. Check "Fitna, the Movie - Opposing Islamic Terrorism", at http://blog.fathersforlife.org/2008/03/28/fitna-the-movie-opposing-islamic-terrorism/ There is a serious problem in the Netherlands, and not only there, but in many of the European countries, so much so that for instance many indigenous Swedes are leaving the City of Malmö, to leave it to Muslim radicals who terrorize that city to such an extent that emergency vehicles no longer dare to drive to calls in Muslim-dominated quarters. See: ---quote--- April 18, 2007 Fjordman: Jihad and the Collapse of the Swedish Model Another great piece from the extraordinary European essayist Fjordman: Full text at http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/016112.php ---end quote--- A couple of years ago I discussed those issues with my older sister, who still lives in Germany, but who, after a serious fall, will probably not come to visit here. She did not state that there are any problems of the magnitude that happen in Sweden and in the Netherlands, but she commented on a telling circumstance. She said that there is a boom of constructing new mosques, which she said is pretty well necessary, because the mosques that exist are all and always filled to capacity. On the other hand, she observed, churches are empty and more and more often forced to close because there is simply not enough money coming in to support them. A similar trend is evolving in England, where many churches closed down and some are now being used as exercising venues for rock climbing aficionados. Whether we have sympathy for the sentiments expressed by people such as Geert Wilders or not, the simple fact is that Caucasians who wish to resist the gradual Muslim subversion and takeover of power and culture in Europe are plainly getting too old to resist. They are dying out. There are not enough Caucasian children being born in Europe to maintain the power and domination by the traditional Christian culture. The importation of Muslim workers in large numbers to Europe began in the 1950s, for no other reason than to solve the developing critical shortage of indigenous workers. What is being seen there now are the fruits of the seeds planted then. The empire of the USA (and let there be no mistake, it is an empire just as much as the vanished USSR was) experiences demographic trends that are comparable to those the Europeans experience right now. Whites, *and* Blacks even more so, are gradually and increasingly being replaced by Hispanics who no longer are willing to adjust to the American cultural heritage but do everything they can to supplant existing cultural traditions and the national consciousness with their own cultural traditions and even their own language. What manifests itself in those trends is the consequence of the replacement of nationalism and national awareness and pride with multiculturalism and with the drive to eradicate international boundaries, the replacement of what once were cultural melting pots with full salad bowls prepared according to the U.N. recipe. That is all according to plan, and it began with the planned destruction of the traditional nuclear family, but no one ever truly believed it would have a peaceful ending. The thinking of our social engineers never went that far. - Walter Don,

Allow me to add a little more information on this, so that any readers may become more informed on what the circumstances of Geert Wilders are about, and so that those circumstances may be more fully understood.

Check “Fitna, the Movie – Opposing Islamic Terrorism”, at http://blog.fathersforlife.org/2008/03/28/fitna-the-movie-opposing-islamic-terrorism/

There is a serious problem in the Netherlands, and not only there, but in many of the European countries, so much so that for instance many indigenous Swedes are leaving the City of Malmö, to leave it to Muslim radicals who terrorize that city to such an extent that emergency vehicles no longer dare to drive to calls in Muslim-dominated quarters. See:

—quote—
April 18, 2007
Fjordman: Jihad and the Collapse of the Swedish Model

Another great piece from the extraordinary European essayist Fjordman: Full text at http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/016112.php
—end quote—

A couple of years ago I discussed those issues with my older sister, who still lives in Germany, but who, after a serious fall, will probably not come to visit here. She did not state that there are any problems of the magnitude that happen in Sweden and in the Netherlands, but she commented on a telling circumstance. She said that there is a boom of constructing new mosques, which she said is pretty well necessary, because the mosques that exist are all and always filled to capacity. On the other hand, she observed, churches are empty and more and more often forced to close because there is simply not enough money coming in to support them.

A similar trend is evolving in England, where many churches closed down and some are now being used as exercising venues for rock climbing aficionados.

Whether we have sympathy for the sentiments expressed by people such as Geert Wilders or not, the simple fact is that Caucasians who wish to resist the gradual Muslim subversion and takeover of power and culture in Europe are plainly getting too old to resist. They are dying out. There are not enough Caucasian children being born in Europe to maintain the power and domination by the traditional Christian culture.

The importation of Muslim workers in large numbers to Europe began in the 1950s, for no other reason than to solve the developing critical shortage of indigenous workers. What is being seen there now are the fruits of the seeds planted then.

The empire of the USA (and let there be no mistake, it is an empire just as much as the vanished USSR was) experiences demographic trends that are comparable to those the Europeans experience right now. Whites, *and* Blacks even more so, are gradually and increasingly being replaced by Hispanics who no longer are willing to adjust to the American cultural heritage but do everything they can to supplant existing cultural traditions and the national consciousness with their own cultural traditions and even their own language.

What manifests itself in those trends is the consequence of the replacement of nationalism and national awareness and pride with multiculturalism and with the drive to eradicate international boundaries, the replacement of what once were cultural melting pots with full salad bowls prepared according to the U.N. recipe.

That is all according to plan, and it began with the planned destruction of the traditional nuclear family, but no one ever truly believed it would have a peaceful ending. The thinking of our social engineers never went that far.

- Walter

]]> By: Kris http://laiglesforum.com/2009/01/21/european-judge-redefines-bans-free-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-20238 Kris Wed, 21 Jan 2009 18:34:52 +0000 http://laiglesforum.com/?p=510#comment-20238 My opinion is that Mr. Wilders is an ignoramus with little sense of reason and justice. He, by his very act of promulgating hatred, is hurting his own cause in his so called thirst for free expression. He should not fear for prosecution but he should fear that his reasoning arguing against the Islamification of Europe is flawed in that it attacks the people rather than the problem. The problem being radicalism on either side and a lack of appreciation for the scientific method, and blind allegiances to dogmas like the Koran, or the Bible. My opinion is that Mr. Wilders is an ignoramus with little sense of reason and justice. He, by his very act of promulgating hatred, is hurting his own cause in his so called thirst for free expression. He should not fear for prosecution but he should fear that his reasoning arguing against the Islamification of Europe is flawed in that it attacks the people rather than the problem. The problem being radicalism on either side and a lack of appreciation for the scientific method, and blind allegiances to dogmas like the Koran, or the Bible.

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