FLDS case threatens child welfare. TAKE ACTION
It’s a good thing we don’t depend on public support to continue our work here at Laigle’s. With articles like the following we’d probably lose a lot of support.
You know what? I don’t care. We are here to tell it as it is, no holds barred.
You know what worries me about this ElDorado case in Texas? I am certain, 100% sure, that it is a foot in the door for legalized polygamy and adult-child sex! This is where the FLDS is taking my country. By themselves, they couldn’t do it. But liberals like the idea of unlimited sexual freedom, and when it comes to this issue, child protection suddenly is not very important. They would love to add Mormons to their growing list of “victim” groups to “protect” by making you more vulnerable. Like they “protect” homosexuals by making it almost impossible for anyone to mention the extreme dangers of “gay” sex.
I don’t think you could be happy with the prospects of living in a country where your children had no legal protection from sexual predators, and I sure as heck am not. I do not want to live in a country modeled after the FLDS practices and doctrines. But wait: did you know that mainstream Mormon has not fully condemned polygamy? For their leadership, the only reason for abstaining from the practice is the fact that the authorities have banned it. What other beliefs are they hiding behind the clerical veil?
For the reasons enumerated above, I have decided to run what is probably he most controversial column ever to appear at Laigle’s Forum.
Quote:
Tell the Texas Governor in your own words how you support indictments for the criminal behaviors for the FLDS ElDorado, TX Case. Ask him to inform of any other official office for you to voice your opinion about this, how to inform the Grand Jury process.
See the information about the Governor’s mansion burning down two days before the children were returned to YFZ and express your concern.
Texas governor Perry’s phone lines:
Citizen’s Assistance Hotline: (800) 843-5789
[for Texas callers]
Citizen’s Opinion Hotline: (800) 252-9600
[for Texas callers]
Citizen’s Assistance andOpinion Hotline: (512) 463-1782
[for Austin, Texas and out-of-state callers]
Office of the Governor Main Switchboard: (512) 463-2000
[office hours are 8:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. CST]
Citizen’s Assistance Telecommunications Device
If you are using a telecommunication device for the deaf (TDD), call 711 to reach Relay Texas
Donald Hank
Is Mormon a cult?
By Marilyn Ann Stacy
The tradition of Judeo-Christian religion recognizes the Supreme Being as creating all, being ever present and continuing his creation. Psalms 119:89, “Forever, O Lord, thy word is settled in heaven,” is explained in The Wisdom in the Hebrew Alphabet, by Rabbi Michael L. Munk: “God’s utterance that created heaven also created everything associated with it…..God’s original Ten Utterances are repeated constantly in the sense that the Divine will of the original six days remains in force. Otherwise, everything would revert to the nothingness of before Creation.” We were given words to live by. We develop a relationship with our Creator to serve our purpose in this life. Added to that tradition is the Son of our Creator. Relying on the words of human beings motivated by selfish desires to direct worship makes a religion a cult.
Another mark of a cult is their challenge to revered religions through mind control techniques of the cult’s invention. A trusted evangelical source, the Index of Cults and Religions, at Watchman Fellowship online, explains mind control of this kind.
Evidence of secular influences further separates cults from bona fide religion. Looking through the Book of Mormon (BOM), by Joseph Smith, we see evidence of secular influences. A story about Golden Plates, for example, was written at the time of Gold Rush. Further, Mormon community Governance includes an interesting version of Communism from BOM (D&C 121:39), where a statement has similarities to those of anarchist Bakunin. Joseph Smith includes aspects of Swedenborg’s philosophy. Like Mohammed, Smith feigns authenticity with borrowed stories from Jewish traditions but clearly distorts them to fit his unsavory agenda (BTW, have you noticed the multiple similarities between Mormon and Islam?). The BOM was rewritten in 1978 to eliminate references to Smith’s racism toward people of color. If inspired from above, the BOM racism would not have been there in the first place. Unlike the Bible, which for millennia, displayed the internal consistency expected of an authentic inspired religious canon, the famous dreams of Joseph Smith and Mohammed were not prefaced by history. Further, their moral trend of licentious polygamy casts doubt on their authenticity as inspired writings.
The FLDS (Fundamental Latter Day Saints) court case focuses on prosecuting criminal activities set forth in D&C (Doctrines and Covenants) of the BOM (Book of Mormon) 132: 61, known as the Plurality of Wives. The BOM for FLDS and LDS (Church of Latter Day Saints) contains D&C 132:61. Although this doctrine is openly practiced only by FLDS today, surprisingly, mainstream LDS has never renounced polygamy. LDS claims to refrain from practice due to government insistence but does practice sealed-forever spiritual marriages in secret or claims to wait to practice them in heaven after death. The former Mormon kindred spirit (KS) sources explain that polygamy continues in secret via sealed spiritual celestial marriages that are consummated here or in the hereafter. As the KS also explains, Mormons teach that the authorities will have to answer to God for their “sin” of denying them the practice of their religion. Until D&C 132 is removed from the BOM, the doctrines of FLDS and LDS are substantially the same. Yet, without section 132, there is no basis for the BOM. To be saved in Mormon depends on the number of progeny produced. A position paper from Concerned Citizens Growth Ministries states: “What women have to look forward to is eternal pregnancy.” LDS is a clearly a “Christian” cult.
There is also a resemblance of perverse ideologies, style, personas, vocabularies, and Public Relations techniques between the Left and Mormon. The sexual assault of underage girls uncovered in the ElDorado case reminds us of the teachings of NAMBLA (North American Man-Boy Love Association). A child bride’s testimony from a previous 2006 Grand Jury reveals: “We were taught that we would go to hell” for speaking out, she said. “After I got away from that religion, I still felt like I would be damned if I ’spoke out’ because that’s just how I was raised.” The Mohave County Superior Court Judge Steven F. Conn, presiding over the case, summed up the issue: It is whether underage girls are going to be protected by society from engaging in sexual relationships outside of the marital relationship.
On July 22, 2008, the Grand Jury for the FLDS case regarding the April 3, 2008 raid at the YFZ (Yearning for Zion) Ranch at Eldorado, Texas, has the opportunity to issue indictments to enforce the law. There is potential to reverse the moral decline in law that started with Rowe v Wade. The media does not advise us on religious matters, which they deem outside their purview. Thus we do not hear about Mormons hiding behind ” religion” to avoid judgment for actual or potential criminal behavior.
Your voice counts. The law is set up to respond, provide indictments, and to follow through with convictions. Once the convictions are a reality, we can address our religious leaders on the issue of cults. For now, we need to focus directly upon obtaining justice through the law, which depends in large part on public support.
Focus should be on the prosecution of the child abuse crimes: sexual assault of underage girls, the practice of throwing boys away because they compete with older men for child brides, and the practice of lying to authorities that FLDS calls “bleeding the beast,” which is lying to procure welfare money.
If you agree that these abuses cannot stand, demand that the court of Texas secure the indictments. The available briefs of this case make it apparent that Judge Barbara Walther should receive supportive input from the public.
Texas Governor Perry’s website is linked at the end of this paragraph. Although the Governor supported the removal of the children from the YFZ,, not enough public support was shown at his website. The children had to be returned to the abusive ranch where child abuse laws are ignored.
Tell the Texas Governor in your own words how you support indictments for the criminal behaviors for the FLDS ElDorado, TX Case. Ask him to inform of any other official office for you to voice your opinion about this, and how to inform the Grand Jury process.
See the information about the Governor’s mansion burning down two days before the children were returned to YFZ and express your concern. Remember to include this with your message: If my address is revealed to any party requesting information via the Freedom of Information Act, I require notice.
Don’t expect a group that considers child abuse as part of their religious creed to play nice!
Related links:
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2002/03/22/fbi-system.htm
http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2007/8/22/205017.sh4.
9/11/1973 Chilean Massacre - Mormon CIA taking over the Jesuits & Catholic in South America
http://www.mormon.citymax.com/MittMormon.html
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July 16th, 2008 at 9:03 pm
FLDS case threatens child welfare. TAKE ACTION…
Another mark of a cult is their challenge to revered religions through mind control techniques of the cult’s invention. A trusted evangelical source, the Index of Cults and Religions, at Watchman Fellowship online, explains mind control ……
July 16th, 2008 at 9:47 pm
>>Don’t expect a group that considers child abuse as part of their religious creed to play nice!
Mormons never seem to play nice, in my own witnesss too, they seem to practise winning at all costs and they do not care who they hurt in the process, not even their own wife..
July 17th, 2008 at 3:22 am
Like I said, it is probably the most controversial column we have ever run, and the responses we have had so far show how deep feelings run in this area.
One defender of Mormon tried to post a lengthy defense of Mormonism, which I can’t run because of the length and because it does not directly address the polygamy aspect that was the focus of Marilyn’s column. Another wrote a post which adds no new information, spews hate against mainstream Christians, and you must know by now, we don’t traffic in emptiness and boredom here. Keeping it polite and sticking to the facts also goes a long way.
You may not like what we write, but boring it ain’t. We expect the same of you. Is that asking too much?
If you want to see yourself in print, add something new and keep it brief.
Mormons are more than welcome to post! Just remember the rules.
July 17th, 2008 at 5:53 pm
Here is the post I had blocked until now. Note that it reads just like a Leftist diatribe. This post in itself goes further to prove the author’s allegation that Mormon is reminiscent of the left in its discourse. Note that there is no evidence or new information to rebut what the author says, just ad hominem attacks and insults. If this is the face of Mormon, be afraid. It is the Left on steroids:
Wow! An impressive string of non sequiters, lies and hearsays!
So, are you prepared to give testimony that the FLDS burned the governor’s mansion?
The state of Texas was trying to commit genocide, for crying out loud. The CPS is completely outside the constitutional guarantees of this country. Acting on false witness warrants, kidnapping of innocent children, assuming that everybody lies even when presenting legal government ID.
You don’t have a clue about right and wrong. Your trusted sources are from lying priestcraft sources. Follow the money, your preachers have lied to you and you ate it up.
July 17th, 2008 at 9:01 pm
If you read the briefs from the case that are in the links provided for this article. You will read how the children would give a different name each time they met with the caregivers. You will note that the children described their home as one big family that included the entire ranch. Documents prove the children were moved from household to household, to one mother, to another mother. These meant that every child was at the disposal and reach of any adult at the ranch. The records show that there were a few adult child molesters at the ranch. Therefore, every child was at risk. If any one can make any sense out of the oppositions briefs please post. Thanks.
July 17th, 2008 at 9:52 pm
Marilyn’s column is quite lengthy as to the number of items she includes and she is quite confused as to what causes what and even left from right. I find it full of contradictions such as equating Roe v Wade and issuing indictments against 14 year old girls who will testify against their 50 year old spouses. The reason there are no indictments is that there is no evidence of such acts. The Judge has had three months to come up with charges and none have been filed yet. In Marilyn’s mind there is not much difference between public outcry and mob violence. Public outcry is not reason to put someone in jail. Mob violence causes lynching. I don’t think she has a grasp of how the law is designed to work. Even in your mind the left/right thing is confused. You commented on my Leftist diatribe as if you knew how I think. I am as conservative as Ron Paul, and I sincerely believe that our founding fathers were inspired by God to give us constitutional law to protect us from excesses of government as displayed by CPS in Texas. You make a mistake when you “mind rape” and try to tell someone what they think. The only person fooled is your self. I think you may be hung up on leftist leanings because this particular group holds all things in common, just like the early Christians. This is a hard principle to live and others have failed in the past. The concept of a common village does not scale up very well and has problems when trying to live in two systems of property ownership. The local merchants wonder where they buy their stuff and the paid preachers wonder why they don’t put anything in their collection plates. By that, you would suppose they do not get along well with others. Truth is, they have farms, dairies, manufacturing, schools, church buildings and most of what they need. They are self sustaining.
Here is a thought. If preachers tell us the truth, then why should they be paid? Don’t you think that they will get the idea that they will tell us what we are willing to pay for?
If you really wanted to know about Mormons you wouldn’t be reading the books you are cutting and pasting from. Mormons are very prolific writers and they make it all free on the internet. Try LDS.org or Mormon.org. The first is for members and the second is for non members, but written without the jargon. I am not an apologist for the FLDS but I understand them when they speak out. I know that they try to do the right thing as they know it. They are a lot more peace loving than the rest of us.
July 18th, 2008 at 2:06 am
Leon,
Ok, now you sound more like one of us, earnestly pleasing your cause without the anger, or at least doing your best to quash it.
Thanks, I appreciate that.
Let’s start with your Wade vs Rowe charge. The reason I like that analogy is that Wade vs Rowe started America on the downward slide 2 ways: 1–judicial activism, 2–unlimited abortion, which is child killing.
Killing children is arguably a form of child abuse–the ultimate–and so is forcing kids to marry or have sex with men, or anyone for that matter. Marilyn based her opinions on the briefs and that is about the closest we can get to the truth for now. The Left–and libertarians as well–like unlimited sex and often forget that others get hurt when people have taboo sex. The taboos didn’t come out of thin air.
As for indictments against girls who testify against their spouses, I don’t think Marilyn even mentioned that. ???
As for Marilyn’s grasp of law, she is a trained legal worker, and knows that in cases like this, prosecutors do consider public input. It is important. I too am aware that judges are to be independent. But prosecutors take public opinion into account.
“Mob violence”? Which is more violent–the men who browbeat kids into accepting marriage with a bunch of old lechers or decent people trying to protect them? Look, I spent a lot of time in the fathers’ rights movement and I know how the system can us “child protection” to manipulate the public.
This is not such an example. These kids are being abused. Polygamy is unlawful and wrong for a whole bunch of reasons and they are being manipulated into accepting it. That is unfair to them–last but not least for the boys who are edged out of the community to supply the old leches with fresh sex.
You are also wrong on the count of holding things in common. I come from a long line of Anabaptists. The Amish where I grew up hold things in common and I have the greatest respect for them. That is not what bothers me about the LDS. I am concerned about bullyng and stealth tactics to manipulate the public. That bothers me.
As for the “peace loving” attribute, it does not tally with the things I have heard from former Mormons.
I would like to hear from a former Mormon or someone who has studied Mormon in depth.
July 18th, 2008 at 4:37 am
Donald,
I understand you. I have some suggestions. The following two men have exceptional blogs and write almost daily about what is current. Get deep into Pliggy’s blog and you will see the history of what happened in Texas from a viewpoint other than the main stream media.
About ex FLDS members and why they write what they do:
http://www.truthwillprevail.org/
Pliggy, an ex FLDS who knows everybody and is first cousins or step sibling to all the current naysayers such as Flora and Carolyn Jessup, Dan Fisher and Lissa Wahl. He has a massive archive of real history and beliefs of people faithful and apostate. I could read this guy for hours.
http://fldsview.blogspot.com/
I will write later about one subject at a time. There are too many balls in the air to catch them all.
Here is a suggestion. It will make you appear more literate. You study Mormonism or Mormon doctrine. It is kind of like Buda that way. Mormon is a nickname for someone who is one. You still don’t know which one because there are about 20 varieties. We can talk about that next time. Meanwhile, seriously check out Pliggy. You will like him.
Leon
July 19th, 2008 at 4:46 am
Hello Boise,
You write:
“It will make you appear more literate.”
Yes, all I want to do is APPEAR literate.
Thanks for the compliment, but no thanks.
You really can’t help yourself, can you?
Ok. I don’t take it all that seriously.
I certainly suggest that those on this forum who want to learn more about LDS check this out.
If anyone has any further comments, they will be appreciated.
July 20th, 2008 at 4:26 am
Boise Leon:
Its easy to think up lies and excuses about those who have escaped. Its so easy to demean them, and continue their portrayal of polygamy with dream descriptions that defy logic. I am truly sorry you believe this way. These online sites are part of FLDS, which is controlled by a few men who are used to being entitled to the portrayal of their abuse to be re-written for the general public. Sorry, the officials of Texas entered that ranch and saw with their own eyes what was there. The officials of of Texas, witnessed the behavior of the women and children of that ranch and their observations ARE EVIDENCE. FLDS can lie, and lie, and lie on and on and on but the general public is not going to go for it. So maybe these men should save your breath for the convictions. Did you know that the majority of the men flew the coup, having no regard for their responsibilties, leaving your progeny and wives to cope with this alone? That is nothing new to them anyway, because their involvement always was distant at best. After all, how could anyone with plural wives support them and their children properly, with the attention, time, energy, love and affection they deserve? These selfish men could not possibly provide that because they are only concerned about what they receive from them, not what they give. How can one man service more than one wife, and her children without causing serious mental anguish, pain and sadness?
July 23rd, 2008 at 12:14 pm
The new news is that the Judge for the FLDS case did issue indictments as observed by this article in the Salt Lake Tribune: http://www.sltrib.com/polygamy/ci_9967064
There was a comment there that may be the answer to prevent the Mormon Harry Reid from neutralizing the situation through his excellent effort to provide help for victims of polygamy, that may also continue the hidden secret polygamy of LDS:
sundae: 7/23/2008 4:48:00 AM 0
Actually it was the Angel Moroni’s information in the Book of Mormon that told them to behave this way. I believe that God allows us to figure out our situations in time. He’s an on time God. There is a way for the Mormons to forgive themselves for following the Angel Moroni’s advise. This evening, I heard on two radio stations about a new book about Angels and Magic. This was not evil stuff it was healthy spiritual stuff. I could not catch the Name of the author or the name of the book because the reception would fade. The information was discussed briefly on NPR and the author was on Coast to Coast for a couple hours. The author said some folks are visited by certain angels and then the next night they will be visited by the Angel Raphael who will explain the previous angel lied. The Mormons need to know this information to heal the incorrect advice of the ANgel Moroni. This would be a graceful way to take care of the behavior problems. The book explains that there is an angelic language that allows you to transcend to angelic realms where you can comfortably examine your own thoughts and purpose in life. I think that if more folks talk about this, a suitable solution will be discovered for the Mormons. I predict that if that happens, Atty. Malonis could inspire Miss Jeffs to learn this angelic language and be an inspirational force to correct the bias against women for the Mormons and provide the graceful way to improvement for all of them and including folks who are not Mormons. I’ll be reading here to find out if anyone else has heard of this book and author and the radio show this evening. I am happy to tell you about this exciting information that is not just a coincidence, I think its heavenly pursuation that is appropos to the FLDS and LDS situation we are all confronted with. I look forward to reading the effect of this post. It is quite positive an answer to our collective effort on this very important issue. Thank you for reading this….